Son of squirly stuff

[Ian in Northampton]

This follows on from the 'Squirly Stuff' thread, but moves off at a bit of a tangent, so I thought a new topic would be appropriate.  Hopefully, it's a simple question...

The plan is to run an Ethernet cable from my office where the modem/router is to my son's bedroom.  Can I put a switch, or another router, on the end of it in my son's bedroom so that I can then cable the other rooms at the far end of the house?

[Jon]

Yep. I have several scattered around the house (for that matter I have several scattered around my office cubicle).

[Ian in Northampton]

Many thanks for the quick reply, Jon.  Just so I know what I'm letting myself in for...  Am I looking for a fairly simple switch, or do I need a proper router (is there even a difference?)  What features should I ensure I get?  Any recommendations as to names/model numbers?  And:  can I just simply, in effect, plug the new switch or router into one of the four ports on my existing router and it will automatically know what I want to do, or am I likely to have to mess with the original router's configuration?

[Jon]

Straightforward switch. Just plug it in to one of the router's ports and you're good to go. Most switches these days will auto-sense whether they're connected to a computer or another switch and handle the transfer OK. If you get a model that doesn't, you'd need a "crossover cable", but that's rare. I mostly use NetGear stuff, but have some Hawking. Make sure you get at least Cat 5E or, better, Cat6 cable for a long run.

[Dr Keyboard]

Also, IIRC, you mentioned running cable outdoors? That can, potentially, be risky attracting lightning strikes. Worth reading up on, via a Google search, just in case.

[Michael]

Am I looking for a fairly simple switch, or do I need a proper router (is there even a difference?)

A switch is a multiplexed hub - it connects network devices and allows multiple simultaneous communications. A router is a LAN/WAN interface - it mediates between two networks. Most devices packaged as consumer ADSL routers are in fact 4-in-1 devices: ADSL/firewall/router/switch.

[Ian in Northampton]

Thanks Michael.  Just to return to this one...  What I'm thinking would be ideal would be to be able to attach a wireless switch at the end of my 50 metre cable.  My thinking is a) my son could have a wired connection (better for gaming), while my daughter (when she's home) could attach wirelessly (her bedroom is next to his), and b) I'm thinking 'switch' because I don't want to get involved in configuration/set up issues (even if it were possible to attach a router to the existing router, which I'm not sure is possible?), so I'm looking for a really simple solution. 

I've seen products advertised as wireless printer servers - like the Netgear WGPS606 802.11g - but I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the wireless element of these can only be used to attach printers, not e.g. laptops.

Also:  given that I already have a wireless network running off my router, if I can find the product I'm looking for, is there likely to be any conflict between the wireless network I already have and the wireless access provided by the switch?

[Jon]

You're thinking correctly, a print server (even a wireless one) is set up to talk to a printer over a wired USB or parallel connection. In a sense, it's just a network card for a printer.

I haven't looked to see if there are any switches which offer both wired and wireless connection in the same box, but there certainly are wireless access points that can be plugged into a wired switch to offer wireless access. They would need to be configured, but could be set up as a separate wireless network with a different SSID and encryption (WAP/WPA) code.

You could also set up a second router at the far end of the cable; just assign it a diferent IP subnet range (say, 192.168.32.xx). If you give it a static IP address on the "uplink" side, you could additionally configure your main router to pass through game traffic only to and/or from that address, or otherwise control traffic from the outside. Of course, that gets into configuration/set-up issues.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a long hallway or corridor inside the house and more-or-less connecting the two areas? You might also be able to set up a wireless "repeater" between them. It won't give your son a wired connection for his on-line gaming, but I rather suspect that the real choke-point for that is your connection from the router to your ISP.

[Ian in Northampton]

Jon, that's very helpful and sounds very promising.  To answer your question:  what we have is a row of three cottages which all adjoin each other.  Over time, we have knocked through from one to the next to give us one large house.  Unfortunately, this 'large house' is 90 feet long (by about 18 feet deep).  Equally unfortunately, the router 'has' to be at one end of the house - and my son's bedroom is at the other end of the house.  Add to this the fact that most of the walls are at least 18 inches thick, and you'll start to understand why the wireless repeater that I tried did virtually nothing, wherever I put it. 

It sounds, from what you're saying, as if I could put another wireless router on the other end of my long cable, and somehow configure my existing router to recognize that at the end of three of its cables is a PC, but at the end of another one is another wireless router?  As I said, I'd hoped to find a solution which would be the ultimate in simplicity to install, hence my search for a switch rather than another router - but maybe my search will be in vain, so I'll have to go the router route (so to speak).  Also:  would a router be capable of being attached to the existing network via an RJ45 connector?  I can't recall what's on the end of the cable that connects my phone line to my existing router.

Or, reading your post again, should I be looking for a two part solution - a regular 4-port switch, and then a wireless access point to plug into it?  That sounds simpler.  But then, you talk about needing to configure that too...  What would I lose - apart from it probably being more expensive?

Sorry for all the adidtional questions:  you can probably tell, I'm struggling to get my head round this, now that I've complicated the issue by a) trying to solve the needs of more than one user, and b) to do so with both a wired and a wireless connection.

[Jon]

And here I was thinking you lived in one of the "stately homes" and wondering about dropping in for a visit when we're over there :{)#

You wouldn't need to tell your existing router anything about what's at the other end of the wire. All it does is look at the address on a TCP/IP packet and poke that into the correct wire. What you could configure it to do (and this actually applies no matter what's at the other end of the wire) is to not poke packets of a certain kind (e-mail, web page, peer-to-peer download, voice-over-IP) down a wire even if it's addressed for that. Or to poke any requests of that kind down a specific wire when they come in. Between the two, you could effectively, should you desire to, restrict on-line game playing to your son's computer so he couldn't try using yours when he's messed his up too badly.

Any kind of wireless will need configuring. If you stick with the wire to your son's room it doesn't matter whether you connect it directly to his PC or to a wired switch. But if you put a wireless access point or a wireless router in there, you'll have to configure the wireless network. It won't magically absorb the settings from the wireless network at the other end of the house. And if you do put a wireless router there, you'll need to configure that to look to your "upstream" (between it and the ISP) router for some network settings.

[Ian in Northampton]

Jon:  you know you'd be welcome, even if ours isn't the stately home you'd imagined (whatever gave you that idea?   )  It would be fun to put a face to someone who's been so helpful to me over the years.  Like this time.  Let me go out and get some cable, and then think what to do next.  I think I'm becoming clearer about my options.  Again, many thanks. 

[Ian in Northampton]

Another story with a happy ending - so far.  I have now run the Ethernet cable around the side of the house (I bet network professionals don't have to deal with bloody wisteria, though...) from the router into my son's bedroom, and he's getting excellent performance.  (I must remember to fill the exit/entrance holes in the window frame before it rains, though...)  Next step is to stick the switch on the end so my daughter can use the connection from her bedroom.  I'll let you know...

[Ian in Northampton]

Well, I now have my 5-port switch...  One question.  It has, just like it says on the tin, five ports.  There seems to be no distinction betwen any of them in terms of the socket you use for the 'link' to the modem/router, and the sockets you use for the four remote PCs.  Am I right - it doesn't make any difference what you plug into what?  And yes, I've read the manual - such as it is...

[Jon]

Which switch is it? Generally if they don't have a port specifically labeled "Uplink", the ports are "auto-sensing" and you'll see that magic word somewhere in the documentation. If you choose to just plug everything in and see what happens, nothing will be harmed even if it isn't.

[Ian in Northampton]

Thanks Jon.  Yes, I think it says autosensing somewhere - but I'll give it a whirl, see what happens.